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Three months after purchase and installation of Mestek's Cosmogas boiler I reported problems with lack of heat and the boiler shut-down to Jerome Perea (the plumber) and Abel Roderick (the Mestek Inc., & Embassy Industries Representative). Their response was almost "get lost" and don't bother us - we have your money, "tough luck".
That was followed by one and a half years of phone calls, emails and registered letters to Mestek, Inc., Embassy Industries, Abel Roderick and Jerome Perea ASKING, BEGGING AND FINALLY THREATENING them to either repair or replace the boiler. Their response was always the same "there's nothing wrong with our boiler - you simply don't have enough base board heaters in your house".
When I reminded them that I'd lived in the house for the last fifteen years with the same number of baseboards, they blew me off. Finally, Tony Fazzino simply said "call an attorney".
So I did just that. I hired an attorney. That finally got their attention and they hired a local plumber (not Jerome) to trouble shoot the problems with my boiler.
NOW COMES THE BEST PART: The plumber did as he was told and repeated that I didn't have enough baseboard heaters. The only problem is that it was the same plumber who installed the baseboards in my house fifteen years ago!!!! He'd forgotten he did the original installation. Talk about inept!!!!
When Mestek and their attorneys discovered this, I was issued a check so quickly that I wasn't even asked to sign a non-disclosure statement. Wow!
That my dear fellow bloggers is how I'm able to warn the public and disclose the horrible way this Company and their Representative treats their customers. Unfortunately the threat of a lawsuit was the only thing that got their attention.
When I reminded them that I'd lived in the house for the last fifteen years with the same number of baseboards, they blew me off. Finally, Tony Fazzino simply said "call an attorney".
So I did just that. I hired an attorney. That finally got their attention and they hired a local plumber (not Jerome) to trouble shoot the problems with my boiler.
NOW COMES THE BEST PART: The plumber did as he was told and repeated that I didn't have enough baseboard heaters. The only problem is that it was the same plumber who installed the baseboards in my house fifteen years ago!!!! He'd forgotten he did the original installation. Talk about inept!!!!
When Mestek and their attorneys discovered this, I was issued a check so quickly that I wasn't even asked to sign a non-disclosure statement. Wow!
That my dear fellow bloggers is how I'm able to warn the public and disclose the horrible way this Company and their Representative treats their customers. Unfortunately the threat of a lawsuit was the only thing that got their attention.
I took their check and replaced their boiler with a Weil-McLain boiler and I've had a warm house and reliable domestic hot water ever since.
Oh, and by the way - I still have the same baseboard heaters.
For a complete list of Mestek companies and products, visit their website at:
www.mestek.com
A really great Architect who will help you with Green, Sustainable Architecture or simply help you with resolving issues like this, contact the Santa Fe Architects with Boniface + Associates, architects and builders.
Their website is: www.boniface.com.
Oh, and by the way - I still have the same baseboard heaters.
For a complete list of Mestek companies and products, visit their website at:
www.mestek.com
Their website is: www.boniface.com.
22 comments:
I am having the EXACT same problem! I live in Tijeras, NM and my plumber has gone out of business. As of today, 12-21-09, when I come home from work I look at the temperature. It's usually at 100 degrees F. To fix this, for a shower and bath for my 3 year old, I have to turn the unit off for a minute (reset it) then switch it to domestic hot water only. When the showers and baths are done, I turn it back to dual mode. I've had trouble with this unit since May, 2008. There have been many calls over the last year and a half to Abel. Not to mention that my propane bill has been almost double than it was before I switched to this more "efficient" heater. I would expect more from a unit that cost me over $5000! I'm ready to rip this unit off the wall and go with a conventional boiler and water heater. If anyone has any solutions please call me at 505.350.5047 Thanks Frank Alvarado
i also have an embassy axia and it simply cannot handle large volumes of water at once --i.e. filling a bath fast, it can fill it very slowly, but what's the point?
the unit is now a year old and lately it keeps getting stuck with the blower running, but not the flame so the water temp drops to zero. i have written and called embassy about this problem, and can't get anyone to answer the phone or call me back. very frustrating. i would also advise people to avoid this company
Please do not buy the Axia 29E. I have this model in my house and I have the same problem as you have with your small boiler. I think that the engineers who develop these heat system are the people responsible for the problem. Please let me know if after all if you found a solution!
e mail me at : pgilhiga@yahoo.com.br
I've had the same problem with my Axia boiler. I had it put in about two years ago and it's a piece of JUNK.
Everytime I'd call Abel to ask why my house was cold I'd get his wife. She's rude and obnoxious. He doesn't return calls and I eventually moved out of my house. The new owner installed a wood heater. Don't buy one of these Axia Boilers - they don't work.
Howdy - I also have an Axia 20E that is fawked. In the 18 months I have had the system, it has never been an efficient source of heat to the house, although the domestic hot water supply was never an issue. HOWEVER, as of a few days ago the entire ssytem no longer functions. Following a system reset, the red LED on the junction box on the Axia 20E does not stay illuminated, indicating lack of proper supply of propane to the unit and a non-functioning ignition module. So the system just hums away without heating any water. Per the documentation, this is apparently a "lock-out" condition - see section 5.2 of the Axia 20E pdf manual here:
http://www.embassyind.com/product/index.asp
Note as well that the manual does not accurately show the exact control panel that is on the unit I have. Selector 4 is different on my actual unit than is described in the manual. See Figure 1 in the manual which shows location of ignition module (item 9) and junction box (22). Unfortunately, these are not described in any detail. A local hydronic specialist has not been able to get teh thing to work after I gave up on the original installer. These folks also recommend the Buderus GB142: http://www.buderus.net/OurProducts/GasFiredBoilers/GB142/tabid/92/Default.aspx
German, rather than Italian-made, does inspire more confidence.
I have an Axia 29E that lasted 1 winter (in New Mexico)and now has exactly the same problem:it shuts down at night after a short run and when taking a shower. Before that, I had portable electric heaters for 2 years because the cost of propane had gone through the roof, and this is an economical solution except for hot water and temperature control is not as good. Like everybody else, I can't get my plumber to respond. I am going to complain to 1. The Better Business Bureau about my plumber, and 2. the BBB about Embassy Industries.
My problem with the Axia boiler was solved by the plumber by increasing (a lot) the gas pressure at the outside pressure regulator, on the gas line to the house. (See my post April 2010) Previously, I had a basic boiler that lasted 20 years and gave me minor problems. I changed it because I wanted hot water on demand. However, if you have hard water, the coils are more likely to plug. For reliability, a basic boiler and a basic heater will last longer and be cheaper.
That's rough, not sure if you're still having this problem but it would appear that there are two problems. One is that the boiler is oversized and the second is that it wasn't set up properly. High efficiency condensing boilers don't use a thermostat, they use an outdoor reset control.
feel free to contact us if you are still having your problem.
Sasha
Absolute Mechanical Co Inc,
718-236-3159
www.absolutemechanicalcoinc.com
I had the exact same problem. My plumber came and decided the gas pressure was not sufficient. He went out to the line and cranked the pressure at the regulator quite a lot. I am not sure whether that was the fault of the pressure regulator drifting over time, or the boiler needed more pressure than when new. It has been working since. Don't know if this applies to you guys. By the way, I also read (can't remember where) that the coil has to be "descaled" chemically every year. I haven't done it yet (it's 4 years old)
You can add me to the list of frustrated and angry consumers. I have been dealing with this faulty heater for two years. Same problems. A representative of Embassy Industries from the east coast came to NM because there were a number of dissatisfied customers here. He came to my house and told us to replumb, change this and that. Well, it's all been done and it still doesn't work. If there is anyone out there that would like to pursue this as a team effort, please contact me. This company needs to take responsibility for a faulty product!!!!!
Glad I'm not the only one with this piece of s@&t . I bought the Axia 29e when I added an addition to my home, thinking the old boiler wouldn't handle it and paid $5000. For the unit. I needed reliability as NY winters get cold. I started having shut off problems the first year which got progressively worse the next two years ( oh yes, and my pipes froze and burst one winter when I was away for the weekend and it shut off) by the end of its third year( installed Jan 2008) it no longer stayed on and so I could only set it for hot water. My shower would last an average of a minute and then cold water. I had to reset it each time to get a minutes worth of hot water, however the blower would always run. I called the techs and everyone at Embassey so many times, asking, begging, yelling, threatening....all to no avail. I spent over $1,000 bringing out plumbers to assess the problem, I spent hundreds upgrading my propane line to 3/4 inch, still didn't help. The company refused to give the presidents name so that I could write him a letter. They have ABSOUTELY NO tech support in NY state. I was told there was plenty when I purchased it! Two years ago, they told me to use the "certified" tech in northern NY, Tim Randle. He didn't want to travel the 35 minutes to NY, but finally did. He charged me $150 and told me it was a thermostat issue possibly. Last month I called the sales rep again as we are supposed to have a harsh winter and at age 60, after no heat except for a wood burning stove, I knew I couldn't deal with one more winter like this. The rep, Jamie Nullo told me to use Tim Randle. When I told him I had, two years ago, and the result, he stated, well back then he wasn't certified on that model, only the BMS. WTF!!! He also told me another plumber wouldn't know how to service the unit. Well Val Bruni plumbers came out and it took him a while, but he discovered the gas sensor metal had bent over time with the heat, was then touching metal and so it would short and then keep recycling trying to fire. He cleaned it, straightened it out and while it cost me $325, at least everything is working. He will come back out to install a new gas sensor and check all parameters on the heater, another several hundred. This heater has been nothing but a money pit and I'm still so fearful to go away for fear of shutoff. If looking to put together a class action lawsuit for this junk, IM IN.
Debi
Hello from an equally frustrated Embassy Axia 20E owner in Bristol NH. I had the thing installed in a rebuilt lake cottage in 2008. It ran for 4 seasons. Last winter, it locked out. Frozen pipes and the house was destroyed. No answer why. A certified tech made repairs and ran through all diagnostics and so far this winter, it has failed over a dozen times. A dozen times, no exaggeration. Same condition, locked out, yet interesting the red fault LED is not on. All it takes to restart is to turn off and on (kind of hard to do in a secondary residence 75 miles away) Have heard all kinds of excuses and theories of propane pressure, need methanol in propane, over-sized for the small house, replaced a 'wink wink' "known" faulty power convertor board, now replacing a 'wink wink' known faulty ignition board. This thing is a piece of CRAP. I am calling Embassy directly tomorrow as one last chance before I rip this junk out and turn the matter over to my lawyer.
Hello Mike,
I must say I had my share of problems, but thanksfully I had a good company that fixed them free of charge. I don't know if my experience will help you, but here are the fixes I went through: 1. Natural gas pressure was too low at the outlet of the pressure regulator. It was OK when installed, but the regulator pressure had to be increased quite a lot after a year. 2. The water pressure regulator valve was set too low. When outdoor temperature was high enough and the boiler stopped working, the water "cold" pressure was too low on the unit and the system did not resart. I am an engineer but I had to download the instructions for this regulator to figure out how to adjust. This regulator can also be cruded, but my long experience (I am 75) is that plumbers don't seem to know how to adjust it, or prefer to make you pay for a new one. 3. temperature was set too high for our elevation (700o ft)which increased the "hot" water pressure over 30 PSI and the unit shut down. The expansion tank also started leaking. Note also that as the water temperature increases, more calcium precipitates and the coils can plug.
I now have the boiler at 180 F and the water pressure is 15 PSI right after the boiler stops firing. Wether this is optimal I don't know, but I haven't had any more problem. It's not about 5+ years since installation.
In my previous boiler which was 20 years old, it stopped working because a leak developed in a copper pipe buried in concrete (feeding the baseboard heaters) that had been pinched when installed, and the water pressure valve could not make up for the leak. The boiler refused to work.
So after my last post in which I hired a very respectable, well known plumbing company to come out and troubleshoot the system (cost $350), he discovered that the gas/flame sensor/ignightor was bent due to the heat in the unit(guess an inferior quality metal was used), he cleaned it, rennet it back and for the first time in two years I had heat. Now mind you, I live in NY state, not Florida. This lasted all of three weeks, then the same problems as everyone else. Water pressure drops so unit shuts off, fan runs continuously, yet unit won't fire. So NOW a new one has been ordered and this visit will run close to $400. Let's see, that is $750 just to hopefully have heat for the season. When I call the company, it's always the same, vm ONLY, they have two techs for the entire east and one is always "traveling" and the other can troubleshoot, is only there as a guide for installers. Now I see that a large online company that carried their product and supplies has dumped them. GREAT. Has anyone else sued them and can advise how I go about doing the same. Thank you
If anyone can help with back info on their issues and bills (usefull in a lawsuit), I would certainly appreciate hearing from them. Please respond here and also to my email address debidiver@yahoo.com. Thank you
Hi Folks - thanks for the responses and thoughts. My update: on advice of mfg rep, on Tues Feb 4 the Honeywell Ignition Control board was replaced. PN S89E. No reason why, just advice to replace it... it ran for several days, and I went to the cottage last Saturday night. I put the furnace in the efficiency mode, and all seemed well for the following 24 hours... I turned thermostat up and down constantly trying to cause a fault, but all ran fine. Things continued this week for a few days, and we were encouraged that maybe finally we found the silver bullet. Spoke too soon cause last night I received a call at 330am from the monitoring service that is was locked out again. The factory certified tech is out of ideas, I am lobbing a call into Embassy today. That is 14 times since the end of Nov 2013 that this furnace has failed and nobody can figure out why. When it does, the LEDs do not match what is in the user guide... and I have heard different opinions on whether efficiency mode should be used during winter period or nto (again, contradicts the user manual). During the fault condition, it is clearly not producing baseboard heat, the boiler temp is pegged low, the GREEN led is on (producing hot water), but the RED fault LED is not lit, and it should be based on the described fault conditions in the manual. Water pressure looks fine, we had put in power regulation previously. All it takes is a power cycle to restart it. We have had the propane company out numerous times, gas pressure is within operating specs, to be safe they replaced the regulator anyway to bring the pressure up to the mid-point of stated operating range. At this point, I feel no other choice other than to rip the thing out and try to recover the losses from the rep and/or manufacturer... I will give them one chance to make it right.
Never tried this before, but just suppose you opted to have your attorney draw up a letter accusing the supply house who sold the plumber the boiler of selling defective merchandise. If I was that supply house and had enough complaints directed at me from enough people, I would consider dumping that line. What cha think?
Final - it now seems the company has discontinued this model, no explanation. So after years of frustration, frozen/broken pipes, replacing all propane lines to 3/4 in black pipe/ changing propane tank regulators/and having extra antifreeze added in each propane delivery, there are no more excuses on why this unit doesn't work. I am cutting my horrific losses and taking this piece of junk out. I have bought an electric Rheem Platinum Performance water heater and am now looking for a BASIC direct vent boiler without all the fancy bells and whistles, to do one thing, provide HEAT. It's a crime how this company made money off the misery of others over an incredibly inferior product.
It's not the plumber because this manufacturer won't even give us plumbers the time of day. And are very condescending with us about function and voltages with the unit needing to be repaired. I have one in customers house and we even bought a second one for parts and changing components one at a time inorder to figure out what part is causing intermittent shut downs. Most plumbers do not have the tech knowledge to figure these things out and tech support that think they know it all.
So if you want a better way, with the least Amount of issues. Rennai- or navien .
Like everyone else, ours sucks too. Can't fill a bath, etc. Recently, it has started leaking water out of the overflow pipe every time it fires. After a few days, this results in "low pressure," and it won't make hot water until the hydronic loop is manually recharged. Any one got any ideas? Or replacement boiler brands?
This is very educational content and written well for a change. It's nice to see that some people still understand how to write a quality post! Mechanical contractor
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